How to beat the scarcity mindset and build a legacy

Ready for a masterclass in resilience? In this candid conversation, Hosts Living Not So Fabulously, David & John Auten-Schneider, speak with trailblazer Executive Vice President and head of Wells Fargo’s Commercial Banking Diverse Segments, Ruth Jacks. She shares her remarkable journey of overcoming extreme poverty and societal challenges as a queer, Black woman, to ascend the corporate ladder over an inspiring 40-year career.

Jacks opens up about her childhood struggles, the scarcity mindset, and how she turned financial hardship into a driving force for success. “Those were the biggest drivers for me. So when I say I didn’t wanna be poor, it was that I didn’t want to be hungry,” she explained. And though no child deserves to have those thoughts, Jacks knew that she needed a plan: “I needed to educate myself. And so I read a lot. That was one of the things that I was in the library literally every day and every weekend…I do believe that financial literacy is critically important.”

Jack’s valuable insights on financial literacy, mental health, and having a solid support network remind us that success is about knowledge, authenticity, and courage. She challenges the scarcity mindset and proves the power of having a plan. Don’t just watch or listen—take Jack’s wisdom, own your journey, and start building the life you deserve.

Hosts and husbands of Living Not So Fabulously, David & John Auten-Schneider, dive into real money stories with activists, allies, artists, tech-gurus, and trailblazers in the LGBTQ+ community to give you tangible takeaways to tackle your wallet woes.

For full episodes of Living Not So Fabulously, watch on our website or listen on your favorite podcast platform.

This post was written by show producer Rachael Lewis-Krisky.

Video Transcript

Welcome to Living.

Not so fabulously, the podcast where we pull back the curtain on money stories from your favorite activists and allies, artists and tech gurus and trailblazing leaders in the LGBT Q plus community.

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We are David and John Otton Schneider, your financial coaches and hosts, having experience firsthand, what it’s like coming back from debt.

We wanna help you avoid our mistakes to build a life that you want so we all can live just a little bit more fabulously.

And now for the show, welcome back to Living.

Not so fabulously in today’s episode, we’re joined by Ruth Jacks.

Ruth Jacks is a Trailblazer in corporate America now serving as an executive vice vice president in one of Wells Fargo’s commercial banking divisions with a remarkable career spanning over 40 years, Ruth has navigated the corridors of power from the US Army to ge breaking barriers all along the way.

Today, Ruth shares her perspective on navigating and succeeding in corporate America as an out black woman offering valuable insights from her extraordinary journey, going from homelessness to being a leader in one of the US S largest banks.

As a matter of fact, Ruth shares a story with us.

That reminds me a little bit of my childhood when I was six, we were squarely middle class.

My parents though began a path to becoming very religious.

And because of that, my dad quit his job at a nuclear bomb factory.

When he did that, he took a 50% cut in pay, which meant that our family ended up on government assistance.

This started uh uh uh in a uh within me, in a scarcity mindset and a scarcity mindset is when you may have your basic needs being covered, but you still don’t feel like you have enough and your story somewhat mirrors that of Ruth.

So let’s hear how she managed her situation.

Well, welcome, Ruth Jacks to living.

Not so fabulously.

Thank you for joining us.

Thank you for having me.

It’s a pleasure to be here.

Of course, we want to kind of understand about how you got to your position uh in corporate America.

The way that you have you told out leadership a couple of years ago that uh when you were growing up, one of your biggest goals was to simply not be poor.

What did you think?

Did you just summarize it?

I just don’t want, don’t want to be poor.

What did that mean to you?

What were you not getting?

What were your parents not getting as when you were a child that you wanted to make sure you had in your life or what weren’t you getting that you wanted to make sure you had as an adult?

So, the biggest thing that I remember is the lack of food just, and there’s probably politically correct words for it.

I was hungry a lot as a child.

And I remember just my friends were chosen by who had an abundance of food that had leftovers so we could go over and eat.

And so the biggest thing was I just didn’t want to be hungry.

Um, and for me having money meant not being hungry.

Of course, as I grew older, I realized that there’s a lot more to it than just that.

But that was the biggest driver.

And then the other thing was my parents while they were fabulous in their own way, they often walk through life being fairly invisible, especially my dad.

And I just did not want, I wanted to be seen.

I wanted to be heard and I didn’t want to be hungry.

Those were the biggest drivers for me.

So when I say I didn’t want to be poor, it was that I didn’t want to be hungry and I want it to be seen and heard for that matter.

Right.

Right.

So there are a lot of people who I think want to be wealthy, want to be successful.

They do with that when we’re, when we’re Children.

Um, and that doesn’t necessarily translate into adulthood.

So, what do you think it was about?

You and what you did in your career or the talents and skills that you had or your intelligence, whatever the case may be that allowed you to say I’m going to be able to go from being poor and hungry to successful and financially secure.

So, what I’ll tell you is that I started with the plan.

So my plan was when I was 20 I would make $20,000 a year when I was 30 I’d make 30,000.

When I was 40 I’d make 40,000.

That’s exactly right.

When I was 50 I’d make 50,000.

You get it.

So by the time I retired, I’d be set.

You’re making $100,000 a year, 800 years old.

That’s right and fabulous.

And so that was like, that was the plan.

So, what I would say to anyone is and at least have a plan.

Now, clearly, my plans were, weren’t as lofty as they should have been.

But that’s the way I thought when I was a teenager.

Um, and the other thing that I would probably say that was really important was that I listen to others.

I needed to educate myself.

And so I read a lot.

That was one of the things that I was in the library, literally every day and every weekend.

Now, today, I would say you don’t have to go to the library.

But I do believe that financial literacy is critically important and everyone should have and pursue financial literacy.

But you knew that the plan was not all that you needed that.

The details was how am I going to achieve the plan?

Right.

Keep the plan simple, make the details, the work, think about financial and where your, your financial health uh for some people, they’re not comfortable talking about their current state.

And it’s, it doesn’t matter whether it’s, it’s great or not.

I mean, if it’s great, then there are people that are like, hey, you’re bragging or you’re being braggadocious.

If it, if it’s not, then you’re embarrassed about your state of financial health.

So I think it’s a very, it’s a sensitive subject, but it’s so critical.

And so I think the first thing is you must have a goal again, wherever you are.

What do you want to be?

It’s like, literally if you’re trying to take a trip, if you’re in New York and you’re trying to get to L A, you can take the scenic route, which I happen to love by the way, or you can take the direct route, but it’s, you have to know who you are and know where you want to be.

So that’s to me the first thing that’s most important and then second, it’s a plan and the plan is in the details.

So for me as a kid, it was, I wanted to make as much money as possible as quickly as possible.

And so I looked at all the ways, all the jobs that were, that paid a lot.

They were doctors.

Well, that was 10 years of school.

I’m not doing that lawyer.

It was like you had to go to law school.

I ended up studying engineering because it was the quickest path to a good salary in the shortest period of time.

So you also have to do your homework.

And that’s again, what, what’s important to you.

But let’s be real.

You’ve had some challenges that many of us have to struggle with.

You’re a single mother, you’re a black woman, you’re a queer woman.

How are you able to overcome?

Some of those for many people are insurmountable challenges to be seen in corporate America and to achieve the stature that you have.

What were you able to do?

So I think some of it is going back to childhood.

My father and my mother, my father was deaf.

My mother was a genius together.

They walked with their head high and they made it, it was really important for us to believe in ourselves.

And then my mother and father were divorced when I was five and my mother fell in love with another woman.

And this is when it really wasn’t cool.

They were together for literally 50 years.

That’s and what my mom shared was that you just, you have to be you.

Now, I have to admit and in my early twenties, I wasn’t out.

I was and I could be incognito, I could walk around and be in stealth mode where I could choose to share who I was and what I was or not, not all of us have that choice.

It was when my brother passed away that I realized that we didn’t talk like we talked about the game, we talked about the weather, but we didn’t talk about ourselves.

So again, health, wealth and whether you’re stealth or not, we didn’t talk about those things.

So I had no idea that he was, that he had the mental challenges that he had.

And when he was gone, I just said I would never ever again be in a position where someone believed that they couldn’t talk to me.

So if it meant being an open book, so that no one else felt like they were the only one or they were the only one going through something, then that’s who I was going to become.

So it was very personal.

Um Since then, I have kind of walked in that life.

I have to admit I’m not always comfortable with just, you know, being out and proud, but I’m so comfortable just being me.

That that’s just a part of who I am.

And so I will say that the catalyst was my brother passing the, what made it sustainable was that I had positive experiences when I shared my truth when I talked to people and said, you know, I don’t have a boyfriend, I have a girlfriend and she’s amazing.

They didn’t give me that look, they didn’t treat me differently.

And so because I had some positive experiences, it was easier to be myself.

And then eventually it became just natural.

But I know that it was that I always surrounded myself with people that I thought were nonjudgmental, just good people, just truly good people.

And that made a difference.

I think you bring up a really good point here.

We all have both positive and negative experiences in our lives and we can choose which ones to build the rest of our life on David.

I think it’s so important.

Who you surround yourself with the people that are your friends, the colleagues that you associate with and spend time with.

It’s so critical that you have an environment that is supportive and positive and affirmative because there is always no matter where you go in life, you will always find someone that has something negative to say and you’ll find someone that’s something positive to say and it doesn’t matter how awesome you are, it’s just who you choose to listen to because they’re both there and both are in your head.

So it really is who you choose to tune into like radio.

There are songs I love and there are songs I don’t understand.

I don’t listen to are the ones that don’t understand.

Well, that was the first part of our interview with Ruth Jacks Ruth is amazing, isn’t she?

She is.

Definitely.

And II I really appreciate her sharing her story with us, especially the fact that even though she was in an impoverished situation, she didn’t feel like the scarcity or uh poverty mindset was something that was a trap she to stay in.

And obviously her career shows that she didn’t.

Exactly.

So two recommendations that we have for you if you need to break free from the poverty or scarcity mindset are one breaking the habit of being yourself by Dr Joe Dispenza, or the Mindful Millionaire by Lisa Peterson, who has been a guest on the Queer Money Podcast, our other show a few times and with that, we’ll be right back after this break.

Welcome back.

We have more of our interview with Ruth Jack.

So we’re excited to share with you.

But before we do, one of the things I did appreciate also about her story was the fact that Ruth saw that she had options.

Unfortunately, when it came to a poverty mindset or scarcity mindset, I didn’t feel like I had options and it kept me trapped in that.

One of the ways that that manifested was that I hoarded money in my savings account.

But I also then spent a lot of money on my credit cards sinking me into a lot of debt, which take me a long time to break free from.

Fortunately, though I did finally break free from that and today, I have a career helping other people break free and seeing financial freedom as an option.

Exactly.

So let’s hear some more gems from Ruth as she shares how she navigated a successful career as an out black woman in the workplace though, you don’t often have um a ton of autonomy to on who you get to be around.

Um And Deloitte and NYU came out with a study recently that said that 60% of Americans are hiding something about themselves at work, not just not just queer folks, folks.

And so I’m curious, what, what, how are you able to navigate the challenging colleagues, the challenging boss, challenging boss’s boss um and still be your respect, your truth and navigating corporate America.

So what I would say is that I do think that we have choices, John, especially today.

I, I tell anyone from 20 to 60 you have a choice.

Now, we often think we don’t, we often believe I’m stuck in this situation, but I don’t believe that that is true.

There are too many options to drive and generate income to be stuck with a boss that is that is either disrespectful or whatever they is or the people around you.

I do think you have choices now you have to navigate those choices and I think you have to be smart around the decisions you make, which is also why having a network around you that can help you through.

It is important.

Um But II, I do think we all have choices, one of the things that we often wonder and, you know, it’s, this is sometimes anecdotal.

We hear stories of like this but there’s no, no uh data that proves this but individuals who hold themselves back, um because they don’t want to come out, they, they, they choose to not expose themselves so they stay in, in, in a career or they don’t progress in a career where they may have to come out.

Um May I ask the question?

How did you come out?

What was that?

What was it like when you let’s go to that first choice?

What was it like when you first came out in the workplace?

So first I was petrified to be really clear.

And again, two moms, two moms, I was around the community, but I was petrified because I had been living this life.

That was a lie.

I had a boyfriend, you know, I was going to get married, which back then you couldn’t, but I was petrified because what I thought was, what will they think of me when they realize I have not been telling the truth.

I was in engineering in a predominantly white male environment.

And so I just had no idea how I would be received.

Like I said, the positive experiences made it easier, but I was scared, I was really, really scared.

And even afterwards, even after I came out, I was still scared because I came out to like, you know, three people but not, you know, I didn’t make an announcement over the intercom.

They said, hey, teaching all employees, Ruth Ruth likes women.

I didn’t do that.

So for all the other people that I didn’t come out to, I still had this kind of in the back of my mind.

Now, some people know and some don’t and who share it with whom.

So that was a period where I have to admit I was uncomfortable, but it was necessary.

It sounds like you were starting to become more concerned with your colleagues thinking that you were lying to them than them realizing that you were a queer woman.

Is that true?

It was like I, again, I had, I had two moms.

So I didn’t see that loving someone of the same sex as this horrible thing.

What I did see was integrity in the workplace was one of those things that you, you can get fired if you, you know, if you lie about your background or.

So I was more concerned about the integrity of honesty than my orientation.

But each interaction I have to admit I got a little bit more confident, a little bit more comfortable because I had been a fighter my whole life.

Another way of saying is I didn’t realize then, but I am a strong advocate for what’s right again, my dad was deaf.

And so I’ve always been an advocate for uh taking, not taking advantage of people that could be taken advantage of.

Nice.

So taking all that in totality would be remiss if we didn’t bring up some of the changes that are coming in.

Corporate America dialing back their den i efforts and um disconnect, disconnecting from HR C putting everything into context for that front line employee, the person sitting in the cubicle, the cashier um who is starting is seeing this news.

What would you say to them about the current environment that seems like we’re currently in that.

I I would say to anyone that de I is, we say it’s the right thing to do because it is.

But for anyone in the business world, we also recognize it’s a business imperative like the country is changing, literally, our country dynamic is changing.

The majority is becoming a minority depending on what city you’re in.

We are becoming more diverse.

And if we don’t learn how to work with people that don’t look like us, that didn’t go to the same church that us that don’t have the same orientation as us, then we will lose business.

So at the end of the day, I will tell anyone, yes, there are, there is a a dialing back.

It seems of all things diversity, but there’s never been the one thing that we are all in tune with the business world is green.

It’s like at the end of the day if you’re in business and you’re trying to generate revenue, then you’re going to do what it takes to generate revenue.

And D I is a big part of that because that’s the community.

Those are the people that we, that are employees, those are the communities where we work and live.

And so yes, we will follow the law and we will follow the rules and the regulations.

But we are a business and de I is a business imperative period.

So I want to close out here with a similar thought.

I want to go back to this idea of and actually I’m going to read this quote because I don’t want to mess it up.

This is Martin Luther King once said this country has socialism for the rich, rugged individualism, for the poor and for the individual like John mentioned sitting in the cubicle or standing on the front lines, welcoming people into the retail location or on the phones and they see um an executive like yourself being out and they’re like, well, that’s easy.

No one’s going to give somebody like you push back because you’re at that level.

How would you, what would you say to them to say?

Yes, you have the courage and the strength and the people behind you to come out and be your true self.

So I just remember how people treated my parents.

I remembered how they treated me.

And even to this day, it’s still not easy.

There are still those negative voices and positive voices no matter where you go, no matter how high up you go, there are always the haters that are, that want to see you knock down a notch or two or three or, or 50.

I just believe that while it’s, I don’t think it’s ever going to be a walk in the park.

Not in my lifetime.

What?

I hope I’ve adopted three little girls.

I hope for these little girls that in their lifetime they can walk and be whoever they are and not have any doubt that the people that are their friends are their friends because of their character and their personality and it has nothing to do with what they have or what they don’t have.

What I would say is that, do I have it easier now?

Absolutely.

Without a doubt because I know hard.

I know difficult.

I know how it feels to be invisible, to not be seen and not be hurt.

I’ve experienced that.

So today.

Well, yes, I have a voice.

I use my voice.

There’s, there’s, there is always in the back of my head, that kid and the things that I experience and the belief that it could all go away.

And so while I have without a doubt, now I have privileges that I never would have believed I would have when I was a kid saying if I make 20,000 when I’m 2030 when I’m 30 I’d be living life.

I never thought I’d be here.

But I believe that in this body as a black female LGBT Q plus member, proud member, a mom, a sister.

Like when I think about a wife and I think about who I am today, it still has challenges.

I think we all have challenges and that’s a misnomer.

We believe like I did when I was a kid that if I just make more money, my life will be perfect.

There’s no such thing.

I think we are all on a journey.

I think we are all masterpieces in the making.

And sometimes you have to do over and sometimes it’s not perfect.

But if you embrace that, then it, then it gets easier.

Well, that concludes our interview with Ruth Jacks man.

I could just li listen to her all day.

She has an inspiring story.

And I think one of the important things to remember is that uh yes, her circumstances were unique and very difficult.

Um And we are by no means, are we saying that uh that if she could do it anyone can?

I think the important thing that she drove home to us is that in any situation, we all can believe that we have some choice.

And oftentimes it’s the choice to believe in ourselves that can help us overcome some of the circumstances that we are facing.

So I did love to how she mentioned that even when she was having challenging times, she needed a network of support, a support system, a tribe to help lift her up.

And so some resources that you might want to check out if you need to help build your tribe or your network or one, your employee or affinity resource group at your place of employment, you can also check out your local social networks that are LGBT Q plus friendly as well as even going to a therapist can sometimes be the support system that you need.

So that concludes this episode of living.

Not so fabulously.

Thank you for joining us.

Until next time.

Stay fabulous.

This content was not intended to be financial advice and should not be used as a substitute for professional financial services.